• Water
• Consultation Process
• Section 9
• Sale of SOAs
• Treaty Issues
• Other Issues

Hui in Rotorua - Distinction Rotorua, 8 Feb

The issue of water rights was raised at both hui, with speakers confirming their special relationship with water. Some speakers talked of the spiritual connections with water, others talked about their rights of ownership, and some talked about the impacts of power companies' use of water within their own rohe.
Many people expressed concerns about iwi who had yet to settle claims or address water rights within their rohe. And again, many people raised that you cannot separate this issue from the issue of water, therefore it must be discussed.
In Hamilton, there were specific questions and issues raised around the Waikato river; the Treaty-based relationships that many iwi have with power companies along that river; and the co-management arrangements and river settlements that have been had in that region.

Hui in Whanganui - Whanganui Racecourse, 9 Feb

Many speakers spoke of their relationship to the water. Huirangi Waikerepuru of Taranaki asked that the Ministers continual referral to water being 'unowned' and 'unownable' stop. He also expressed that whanau, hapu and iwi believe in the principle that water is part of life and life and law go together.
One speaker reminded the audience that we cannot divorce the issue of partial privatisation of these power companies, with the issue of water, and the river claims.
Nancy Tuaine who spoke on behalf of Whanganui River Trust opposed the removal of Genesis Energy and Might River Power from the SOE Act, as the entities had significant impacts on the resources within their rohe.
Many speakers supported the case of the NZ Maori Council, although others referred to the fact that Whanganui already has a Tribunal report which reaffirms their rights and relationship with the river.

Hui in Whangarei - Toll Stadium, 10 Feb

Many kaikorero provided explicit examples of waterways, awa and springs that were significant to their respective iwi and hapu.
Pita Tipene of Ngati Hine talked about their relationship with the water that flows out of Motatau, saying that they do not prescribe to 'ownership' or 'kaitiakitanga' but believed in the concept of mana motuhake or rangatiratanga over their waters.
One kuia told the Crown panel that water has been used in a customary way for a long time, and said it was customary treason to sell water rights. She said that the Crown has never acknowledged the property rights of Maori, and yet they want to look at allowing foreigners rights to use the water.
Manu Paul, who has attended most hui to date updated participants on the NZ Maori Council claim.
Taipari Munroe from Te Uri Roroi talked about their spring at Poroti, and made mention of their support for the action of the NZ Maori Council, as their freshwater issues were included in the claim.
Many people supported the stance that no partial sales should go ahead until all customary rights on water were defined.

Hui in Tamaki Makaurau - Novotel Auckland Airport, 10 Feb

Water was not discussed to the same level of detail as in other hui, although many speakers made mention of water. One speaker pointed to the consultation document which said that water was outside of the scope of the consultation. Her response was that ʻeveryone knows water rights go hand and hand with power companies. You cant have a car without an engine'.

Hui in Murihiku - Waihopai Runaka, Murihiku Marae, 14 Feb

Water issues were brought up in relation to broad statements around the Treaty. One person asked whether the process of consultation meant talking to other stakeholders?
The Minister responded by pointing to the Land and Water Forum process.
One speaker told the Crown panel that although they are saying no one owns water, the right to use water is in effect a property right that can be traded.
A man read the statement sent out by Sir Graham Latimer, of the NZ Maori Council, on the issue of water.

Hui in Turanganui-a-Kiwa - Emerald Hotel, 15 Feb

Many speakers refered to the issue of water and its importance in this debate. One woman stated that water is vital to the survival of the people, and that it is important that Maori are recognised as the guardians of that water.
There was a submission by the Wairoa Waikare Moana Maori Trust Board who expressed deep concern about the proposal of partial privatisation of these power companies.
This speaker pointed to particular concerns on power generation sites on Waikaremoana (Genesis) and how this proposal might impact them. He stated that the Trust Board was concerned that the Crown has not yet discussed the implications of these sales with the Maori owners of Waikare Moana. He stated that they are not just shareholders but actual owners of the lake, and while they had previously good relationships with the Crown, this proposal put those relationships at risk.
He asked the Minister how this would impact the arrangements and contracts that they have in place on the water - to which the Minister responded he would seek to ensure there were further discussions held on this issue. The speaker also stated that it would take more than soft platitudes or political assurances to address the relationship issues with the Trust Board, and that robust discussions on this kaupapa were required.
The kaumatua stated that while the benefits of this programme were for all New Zealanders it was never a problem. It has become a problem however, through the introduction of private interests, stating that we cannot know how private sector regards Maori interests. He said that if the Treaty partner has no regard for Maori interests, then how will private investors be expected to uphold the Treaty.

Hui in Te Whanganui-a-Tara - Te Puni Kokiri, 15 Feb

Hui in Rotorua - Distinction Rotorua, 8 Feb

There were a number of issues raised by speakers at both hui, around the process of consultation the Crown has undertaken. Many believed that the consultation process was not a respectful process nor was it 'in good faith'.
Many iwi invited the Crown to come and visit them within their own rohe, on the marae to speak to the people directly.
Other speakers identified that the short timeframe for consultation was not enough time to consult widely within their iwi/hapu. In Waikato specifically, some people talked about how difficult it was to find the details of where and when the consultation hui were to be held.
Many people talked about a sense of mistrust around the Crown actually listening to the views expressed within the consultation hui.
In Rotorua, one participant asked the Crown panel - "What happens when we say no?" - The response from Hon. English was "In the end the Government will make the decision, and we are here today to hear your view."

Hui in Whanganui - Whanganui Racecourse, 9 Feb

Many people expressed that the consultation process itself was not fair on Maori/iwi. There were a number of speakers who spoke of the short time frame for consultation, and expressed dismay at the inadequate time allocated to take this kaupapa back to their whanau, to formulate their positions, and write submissions.
Nancy Tuaine of the Whanganui River Trust drew particular focus to the fact that this consultation process was taking place over ten days, and yet their Treaty claim limps along at a slow pace.
Toni Waho, of Atihau Whanganui Inc expressed that many settlements in this rohe were unsettled, and that the consultation caused worry to many about what the Crown might be preparing to do, or give away when settlements have not yet been resolved. He also pointed to the fact that the consultation process was moving rapidly. He told the Crown panel that the questions asked were rhetorical in nature as no Maori would come and say they had no rights.
Many people also expressed mistrust in the Crown and their processes.

Hui in Whangarei - Toll Stadium, 10 Feb

Again, speakers made reference to the timeframe within which consultation was being carried out. Many also made reference to the fact that they did not trust the Crown.
One kuia thanked Hon. English for attending to give them the opportunity to talk directly to him about the issues.

Hui in Tamaki Makaurau - Novotel Auckland Airport, 10 Feb

Not much mention was made of the timeframe around consultation, unlike other hui.

Hui in Murihiku - Waihopai Runaka, Murihiku Marae, 14 Feb

Some speakers noted that this discussion around section 9 makes Maori nervous, pointing to issues of trust in the Crown.
One speaker noted that it wasn't that long ago that John Key and National backed Don Brash, and his views on Maori. She also made note of Peter Dunnes stance on some Maori issues. She also stated that she supported Section 9, and we as Maori should be talking about what other wording looks like.
Another speaker expressed a view that no matter what is said in the consultation hui, the Crown would go and do what they wanted regardless.

Hui in Otautahi - Chateau on the park, 14 Feb

Many speakers made mention of the consultation process being unfair due to time constraints. Mark Solomon stated that this consultation process is in effect a breach of Section 9 itself. He also pointed to past dealings with the Crown where they have directed iwi to talk to their beneficiaries, and yet this process did not provide the time required to do that internal consultation.
Most speakers thereafter supported Marks statements. One woman also raised the issue around general lack of trust by Maori in the Crown.

Hui in Turanganui-a-Kiwa - Emerald Hotel, 15 Feb

As per other hui, some speakers made mention of the consultation process as being poor, and in itself, not complying with Section 9 of the SOE Act.
One speaker from Te Aitanga a Hauiti expressed a view that the Crown needed to come and talk to their iwi, along with Ruawaiapu and Uepohatu. Aother speaker asked the Crown to consider working with individual iwi, as opposed to working with groupings of iwi as per the current Treaty settlement process. The same speaker also urged the Crown to consider having individual clauses for each Iwi that provides iwi specific responsibilities under the Treaty.
Many iwi representatives also invited the Crown to come and discuss this issue with them in further detail.

Hui in Te Whanganui-a-Tara - Te Puni Kokiri, 15 Feb

As with previous hui the lack of time to make submissions was raised. Rahui in particular got a rousing round of applause when she suggested that the Government slow down.
Rahui suggested "measuring 10 times and cuting once rather than measuring once and cutting 10 times".

Hui in Rotorua - Distinction Rotorua, 8 Feb

Many speakers questioned the need to re-examine the issue of Section 9. Some speakers referred to the sale of State Owned Enterprises in the 80s, with many noting, that Section 9 was not considered at that time.
One speaker said they wanted to keep Section 9 because it has already been discussed, litigated, re-litigated, and defined over and over again. Maori know it inside out, and they understand it. They also understand the history of it, and its significant to us as Maori. Therefore we must keep it worded as is.
One speaker referred to Section 9 as 'the crumbs off the table', but also added that 'the crumbs are better than nothing'.

All participants who spoke at these hui expressed their clear preference to ensure that Section 9 applies to new legislation related to the mixed model ownership consultation

Hui in Whanganui - Whanganui Racecourse, 9 Feb

There were two views expressed at this hui. One view expressed by many speakers was that Section 9 as it is written in the SOE Act should be transferred to the new legislation. There was concern raised around risks that any new clause would water down the obligations of the Crown on Maori, and also adversely impact on tangata whenua.
One person told the audience that Section 9 was worded in a way that only applied to the Crown, so thought it was mischievous that the Crown has been telling people that the need to clarify this clause was because companies are not subject to the Treaty.
Many also spoke to the possibility of rewording the Treaty clause. One woman expressed that we as Maori should be considering a new strategy for development, and believed that we could look for a better way to account for the Treaty in legislation. Others posited the view that a new clause would only be considered if it enhanced and strengthened the Treaty in the new legislation.
One speaker also expressed concern that Maori should be a part of any consideration of new clauses, and wording of a new Treaty clause.

Hui in Whangarei - Toll Stadium, 10 Feb

Most people who attended the hui wanted to carry over the wording of Section 9 into the new Public Finance Act. One man said that he did not want to change anything that his tipuna who had written down. Another made mention that it would be a backward step, and would degrades confidence and trust of his tipuna.
Other speakers supported the carry over of Section 9, but were prepared to look at new wording if it enhanced the protection of the Treaty, and the notion of partnership. Some made mention of the fear that they would loose something by engaging in that pathway of redefining the clause.
Pita Tipene of Ngati Hine summarized their view on the issue as 'protection and enhancement'.
The overarching view coming from all hui is that the Treaty must be in new legislation, in the form of section 9, unless the rights and obligations under the Treaty could be enhanced.

Hui in Tamaki Makaurau - Novotel Auckland Airport, 10 Feb

As this particular session ran more like a question and answer, not many speakers made mention of their preferance of Section 9.
Many speakers talked of the need to protect the Treaty, and as mentioned above, Margaret Kawharu desire to see Section 9 extended.

Hui in Murihiku - Waihopai Runaka, Murihiku Marae, 14 Feb

Those speakers who addressed this issue, supported Section going across to the Public Finance Act. One speaker noted that any discussions on new wording must include Maori.

Hui in Otautahi - Chateau on the park, 14 Feb

All of those who spoke to the issue of Section 9 endorsed it as the 'bare minimum' of any clause, although many speakers expressed the view that we should be looking at enhancing it.
Sasha McMeeking articulated a number of ways in which the Crown could look at enhancing it including specifying governance roles, and giving expression to the partnership in meaningful ways in legislation.

Hui in Turanganui-a-Kiwa - Emerald Hotel, Feb 15

Most speakers who discussed this issue argued to keep and transfer section 9 to the Public Finance Act, and then enhance it.
Ta Api Mahuika of Ngati Porou reminded the Crown panel of the advice given by the Iwi Chairs Forum at Waitangi which was to retain section 9, and then strengthen it. He pointed out that retaining Section 9 would complement Section 27A-D which was weak. Ta Api also mentioned that keeping and enhancing S9 would possibly address the issues raised around Waikaremoana.
One speaker, stated that he saw no burning reason to not carry over section 9, and also urged the crown to consider including obligations under Te Tiriti o Waitangi in the constitution of the power companies to be partially sold.

Hui in Te Whanganui-a-Tara - Te Puni Kokiri, 15 Feb

Minister Ryall conceded that option 3 was not a likely option and that even option 2 was looking difficult to achieve but invited suggestions in the submissions for any suggested changes.
Whatarangi Winiata suggested that Taihakurei Durie might be a good selection if the Crown wanted to consider alterations or amendments and needed someone to facilitate this.
Preferential Shares for māori from within the 51% was raised. He also discussed the opportunity for the seven elected Māori MP's to be involved in all aspects of the debate as equal partners with the government in a subcommitte to make final reccomendations.

Hui in Rotorua - Distinction Rotorua, 8 Feb

Many people spoke more broadly about this issue of the SOEs. Most speakers were against selling the SOEs all together.
Some speakers spoke of the need to protect our lands and waters for future generations, and did not want to see these resources sold into foreign ownership. These speakers often expressed that if they must be sold, then they want to see these assets stay in the hands of New Zealanders and or iwi.
One speaker in Rotorua reminded the Crown that iwi sought a pre-emptive right of purchase for shares in these assets. This speaker did however, also reiterate that he is opposed to the non application of Section 9 in new legislation.

Hui in Whanganui - Whanganui Racecourse, 9 Feb

One speaker asked why we do not promote our Treaty and bi-culturalism and promote the idea that we (as Treaty partners) are the best partner you could have. She told the Crown that if they see Maori as a risk, then the way to mitigate that risk was by settling the outstanding Treaty claims.

Hui in Whangarei - Toll Stadium, 10 Feb

Most, if not all, people who spoke at the hui in Whangarei were opposed to the sale of the SOE's. Many people expressed that explicitly, while others expressed other concerns around ensuring customary claims were settled first, protecting the community from rising power prices, and selling the 'furniture' in our metaphorical whare for a short term gain.

Hui in Tamaki Makaurau - Novotel Auckland Airport, 10 Feb

Many people attended the hui to present their broader views on the issue of partial privatization, including a number of Pakeha.
There were a number of questions asked around potential 'issues' with the Crowns proposed model, including asking questions around leverage of capital in the future and how that would impact on the Crowns majority ownership; the transfer of principles from the SOE Act outlining the social responsibilities, 'good employer' responsibilities and others into the new legislation; and also the checks and balances to prevent the Crown from sinking below the 51% ownership threshold.
There were also a number of concerns raised around the issue of poverty, living costs and social good and how we ensure that we (as a nation) are looking after those who need it most.

Hui in Murihiku - Waihopai Runaka, Murihiku Marae, 14 Feb

Many speakers asked general questions around the partial sale of SOE's. There were a number of questions which related to the economic factors of the sale, questioning the financial sense in selling shares; the impact of free trade agreements on investment; potential impacts on costs to consumers for purchasing power; and around the long term economic impact of the proposal.

Hui in Otautahi - Chateau on the park, 14 Feb

Most of the speakers supported the comments put forward by Mark Solomon and Sir Tipene O'Reagan on this issue.
Sir Tipene (whose korero is fully reported in the Treaty section below) expressed his support for the partial privatisation model shares being made available to iwi. He expressed that his reasoning for this was that the investment meets the Warren Buffet test, and also because iwi are intergenerational investors.
He shared with the audience his experience as a past board member of Meridian, and his learnings from that. He also pointed to the Norwegian experience of public private partnerships as a positive model.
Mark expressed that he has been a public advocate of iwi investment into these shares, and is generally supportive of the overall proposal. He did state however that the process of engagement was important moving forward.
Other speakers were generally supportive of Sir Tipene's and Marks comments, although some couched this support by saying that 'only if it is NZ investors, iwi, kiwisaver, NZ super and other such groups.
A few speakers still expressed opposition to these sales, although said if they must be sold then let it be to iwi and NZers.

Hui in Turanganui-a-Kiwa - Emerald Hotel, 15 Feb

Some speakers supported the governments proposition. Other speakers made specific mention that the government should not sell to multi-national companies.
Another speaker also urged the Crown to consider other better ways of using the assets to earn money.

Hui in Te Whanganui-a-Tara - Te Puni Kokiri

Many people spoke more broadly about this issue of the SOE's. Most speakers were against selling the SOE's all together.
Some speakers spoke of the selldown only raising 5-7 billion dollars or the equivalent of one years borrowing and questioned wether or not we would just sell the other 51% next year to offset next years borrowing.

Hui in Murihiku - Waihopai Runaka, Murihiku Marae, 14 Feb

Some speakers made mention of broad Treaty issues. One speaker noted that there is very little protection for the Treaty in legislation, and asked what is so wrong with Section 9, and why it cant apply to companies?
The response from Hon. English was that it came down to the legislative distinction as to who is the Crown, and who is not, and stated that the partnership was exclusive between Maori and the Crown.

Hui in Otautahi - Chateau on the park, 14 Feb

Sir Tipene O'Regan gave an overview of the history of Section 9, as he was one of the claimants to what is now referred to as the 'lands case'. He stated that it was the lands and waters case at that time, although it is now referred to as the lands case.
The same speaker also gave a brief overview of Ngai Tahu's claim, stating that Ngai Tahu had originally asked the Crown for shares in SOE's as part of their settlement package. He also referred to their settlement in 1998 which went into water issues as well.
He made a clear statement that Ngai Tahu are not interested in ownership of water, but rather rights of access, which is a form of property right. His final statement was that he sees no barrier in keeping Section 9 in place for legislation governing the partially privatised SOE's.
One person present also raised the issue of 'right of first refusal' and asked where the Crown was heading on this issue. The response from the Minister was that there will be no change to those sections within the Settlement Act. Another person brought up the issue of Accords and whether the Crown would look at that as a possibility around the issue of managing the relationships between Iwi and the power companies.
One woman expressed the view in the following way "If you are not going to improve it, then don't remove it." Another speaker expressed it as follows "Where you go [the Crown], the Treaty goes, and where the Treaty goes, we [Iwi/Maori] go"

Hui in Turanganui-a-Kiwa - Emerald Hotel, 15 Feb

Some speakers talked about the need to refer to the original Treaty rather than the principles. One speaker urged the Crown to look at who actually signed the Treaty and consult with those groups.
One speaker pointed to the fact that the Crown is looking to sell shares in SOE's when they would not consider settlements that included provision for petroleum on minerals. The same speaker pointed to the fact that the Crown was looking to 'give away' their obligations to the Treaty through privatisation.

Hui in Whangarei - Toll Stadium, 10 Feb

Many speakers talked about the principle of partnership in various forms. Some talked about the partnership as an ideal that had not been realized, while others talked about the need to honor the partnership, and in turn, Maori as the Treaty partner.
Sonny Tau described Maori as the 'natural partner' for the Crown.

In their presentation, the Ministers refered to the RMA as providing added protection for Maori (in lieu of Section 9, alongside other protections such as S27A-D). One speaker from Te Uri o Hau and Ngati Whatua talked about the issues that were raised at the Kaipara Harbour - arguing that the RMA failed to protect their iwi from power projects.
Other speakers expressed concern around the Crown claiming ownership over resources such as water, and questioned how that happened.

Hui in Tamaki Makaurau - Novotel Auckland Airport, 10 Feb

There was much discussion around the broader issue of rights and interests.
Hema Broad representing the WAI 262 claimants asked Hon. Ryall what the difference was between 'rights' and 'interests' - to which the Minister responded by saying an interest is a 'stake' and a right similar to a 'controlling stake'. The point of the discussion raised by Hema was to identify that the Crown in their questioning were asking two distinct points.
Margaret Kawharu also raised an issue with the questioning posed by the Crown around what rights we have as Maori to the mixed ownership model, arguing that Maori will fear that if they leave something off the list of 'rights' that it would not be covered by new legislation. She expressed concern that the Crown would even ask this question when they should know that Maori have a myriad of rights as expressed through the Tribunal process.
She also talked about the Lands case, and the huge amount of work that went into developing the principles. She expressed a view that we should be looking to extend section 9, since it was written in 1987.
One woman asked the Minister about how the proposed partial sale of SOEʻs would protect 'haua' who are some of the most impoverished and marginalized in our society. He pointed to Minister Turia securing $140mill in funding, and her role as Minister for Disability issues.

Hui in Murihiku - Waihopai Runaka, Murihiku Marae, 14 Feb

One speaker made a statement on the Maori Party's relationship with National. He stated that he and his branch told the Maori Party to go into a relationship with National, and that he believed we were doing a good job. He also stated that the branch was meeting to discuss whether that relationship was still tenable. He expressed that the Party fo listen to the branch, and while they believe its important to get gains by being in Government, if the Party is getting a raw deal they may have to reconsider the relationship.

Hui in Turanganui-a-Kiwa - Emerald Hotel, 15 Feb

One speaker told the Crown that after seeing the presentation she was excited by the prospect of investing in the shares in SOE's as part of her whanau trust. She said she was very interested in where this proposal was heading, provided there is protection for iwi and a robust process for engagement between Iwi and the Crown. She also expressed a desire to see the profits from these businesses going back into the communities within which power companies are based.
One speaker made mention of the fact that he could not afford shares, and nor could those who were on benefits.
Other speakers asked the Crown about proposals to use shares of SOE's as part of settlement processes.

Hui in Te Whanganui-a-Tara - Te Puni Kokiri, 15 Feb

People talked about the polls suggesting that the government had no mandate to sell.

One person focussed on putting pressure on Peter Dunne and his constituents to oppose the sale.